____ a picture, it lasts longer

[muckefuck]

I've tried to get int the habit of remembering to look up whatever I don't know how to say. Like the other night, it occurred to me that I didn't know what verb Catalan speakers used for "take [photos]". Normally, I'd assume a cognate to the Castilian, but Standard Catalan doesn't have the verb sacar. (Or, rather, it does but only in the extremely restricted sports-related sense of "serve [a ball]".) Turns out it's fer "make".

This got me wondering about the verbs used in other languages and what metaphors underlie them. I found a startling diversity. Even those languages which generally use semantically neutral verbs (having the vague sense of "do, make") to form neologisms opted for more specific verbs in this context. Here's the list I came up with along a rough attempt at clustering:

"MAKE"

Catalan: fer
German: machen
Hungarian: csinál/készít
Italian: fare

"TAKE"

Dutch: nemen
English: take
French: prendre
Irish: tóg "lift up; take"
Indonesian: mengambil
Japanese: 撮る toru
Vietnamese: chụp "seize, grab"
Yiddish: נעמען nemen
Zulu: thatha

"REMOVE"

Basque: atera
Hausa: 'dauka "remove, incur"
Persian: برداشتن bar dāstan "raise, remove" lit. "have/hold upon"]
Spanish: sacar
Turkish: çekmek "pull, draw"
Welsh: tynnu "pull, remove"

"SHOOT"

English: shoot
German: schiessen

OTHER

Cantonese: 影 yíng "copy"
Standard Chinese: (拍)照 (pāi)zhào ("clap") illuminate
Igbo: see "draw [as a picture]"
Korean: 찍다 "stamp, imprint", 찰영[撮影]하다 "take-copy do"
Lakota: wicitowa [contraction of wicite owapi "face picture"]
Swahili: piga "hit"
Thai: ถ่าย thàaj "transfer"

Some of the metaphors seem clear if one thinks in terms of an old-fashioned photographic apparatus. The "pulling" or "removing" probably refers to taking the exposed photographic plate out of the camera; I imagine this is also the source of the Thai. The Standard Chinese may be a reference to a flash bulb.

It's difficult to tell for sure how many of these expressions represent independent occurrence of the same metaphor and how many are simply calques. I expect, for instance, that Basque copied the Spanish and colloquial German schiessen is modeled on the English.

Comments

[areia.livejournal.com]

With so many of the verbs implying taking or removing something, I wonder if there is any link to the idea in several cultures that photographs take away something from the subject.

Incidentally, my Pakistani co-worker says that in Urdu there are two words, one of which means "to pull" and another, more slang word meaning "to take".

[lhn.livejournal.com]

The "pulling" or "removing" probably refers to taking the exposed photographic plate out of the camera;

I could also see it referring to the process of exposing the film by removing the lens cap or pulling a lever or string to open the shutter. It might be interesting to see what cameras looked like when the terms entered the relevant languages.

[richardthinks.livejournal.com]

I'm intrigued that "record," "inscribe" or "represent" are so unpopular. "Taking" a picture is a completely different idea from "copying" or "drawing" one; it refers directly to seizing or capturing rather that creating, and that sense (as areia suggests) seems very deeply woven into photography in English.

[lhn.livejournal.com]

It may be related to the French usage, since it was already being applied in the Daguerrotype era. (This page has an 1851 letter from a Frenchman to an Englishman acknowledging payment for "the Daguerreotype I have had the honour to take for you.") I'd guess that it's because the camera obscura had been long known-- what was new wasn't the creation of an image from refracted light, but the ability to capture what had until then been evanescent.

The OED seems to relate it to the earlier sense of "take" as in "take a letter", "take inventory". And contra my speculation, it also has "take" being used the same way for portrait-painting: "1766 GOLDSM. Vic. W. xvi, A limner, who travelled the country, and took likenesses for fifteen shillings a head. 1789 MRS. PIOZZI Journ. France I. 150 Her portrait..will not be found difficult to take."

[jhvilas.livejournal.com]

Speculation: Once an image (photograph, painting, drawing) is generated, it can be removed (taken) away from where it was generated. So can a letter or inventory. In fact, the purpose of generating the picture, inventory, or letter was probably so that it could be referred to with more ease (and probably taken) elsewhere. Yes, you are taking something away from the original: the copy that you generated. This sense could be supplemental to the other good hypotheses mentioned here. But of course I'm not a linguist by any means. :)

[ursine1.livejournal.com]

I hear tomar being used most often here in Barcelona for castellano for taking photos. And sacar is used to take something out, like money from an ATM.

Chuck

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

The usual Catalan equivalent of sacar is treure, but I've seen relatively few instances of treure fotos for fer fotos and I suspect them to be transference errors. The usual meaning of treure fotos would be "remove fotos [from something, e.g. a box, a file, a room, etc.]".

Similarly, tomar fotos would correspond to prendre fotos. Again, I see this seldom and it appears to be influenced by French usage. The usual meaning of prendre fotos would be "take fotos [e.g. along, from off the floor, etc.]".

[ursine1.livejournal.com]

According to my source, in català one can say fer or pendre. Treure fotos means that you are taking away the photos from some place or that you want to show the photos, for example in an album (take down the album from the shelf in order to show its contents).

It's interesting how often there are several correct words that can be used, but one may be more encountered more often than the others.

Carles