Orientalisch Westfalen

[muckefuck]

I find this very cool: A Dominican monastery in Warburg that was going to be turned into a hotel(!) was instead sold to the Syriac Orthodox Church and is now the residence for the bishop of the German diocese. I'm assuming most members of the diocese are nominally Turkish immigrants despite being Christian, but they could be from neighbouring countries as well, since the Arab population of Germany is a non-trivial three-hundred thousand or so. They could even be Aramaic speakers, like some of the Assyrians in Chicago.

Am I the only one who finds it curious that none of the references I've found to the church's namesake, Jacob of Sarug/Serugh, mention how he got that appellation? And that, furthermore, I can't find an entry for "Sarug" or "Serugh" in any gazatteer?

Comments

[princeofcairo.livejournal.com]

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, he got the appellation by being Bishop of Batnae, in the district of Serugh, which is in the gazetteers under its modern name of Suruc, a township of Sanliurfa province in Turkey.

Our boy St. Jacob also preached a homily in verse on Alexander the Great that is one of the taproots of the Alexander-Romance.

ACCORDING TO AN EASTERN ORTHODOX BISHOP...

[darkphuque.livejournal.com]

The Syriac Church, also known as the Jacobite Church, the Syrian Orthodox Church, is part of a group of Churches that are broadly referred to as "monophysite" an appellation given to the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Egyptian and Ethiopian Orthodox Churches, and the Jacobite Church. They left the church after the 3rd and 4th Ecumneical Councils (400's CE) The Churches argued with the Byzantine Orthodox over whether or Christ had 2 (separate) Natures human and divine. There was no 'rea' arguement, but rather a language problem and a political problem. The Jacobites and their children in India do use Aramaic Liturgically. These 3 groups now refer tho themselves as Oriental Orthodox. They use a far older liturgy than the Byzantine Church. They do not have an Iconostansion, but rather a large red curtain that is pulled across the nave of the Church at special times during Divine Services. There were large Jacobite communities in southern Turkey until Ataturk Revolution. Their Patriarchate is in Damascus.

They are very different from the Assyrians who began as "Nestorians" and also use Aramaic Liturgically.

Probably much more than you need to know...

Thanks!

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

More than I need to know? Perhaps--but not more than I want to know.

My view of the Orthodox Churches is rather skewed since, as a Catholic, I studied them only from the Uniate perspective. I learned that the Maronites are the only Eastern Rite church without an Orthodox counterpart, having all accepted the Pope's authority around the time of the Crusades, but I've always been a bit hazy on the distinctions between the various ones.

"Assyrian" is never an appelation I heard before coming to Chicago. We learned about the "Chaldeans", which I think are the ex-Nestorians. Are they the same as the Melkites or is this yet another name for the Jacobites?

I've also heard the Christians in Kerala called "Thomasites" after the legend that St. Thomas the Apostle prosyletised there.

Re: Thanks!

[darkphuque.livejournal.com]

All Eastern Rite Churches, save the Maronites, are Jesuit construct, and continue to be knife in the back to authentic Byzantine and Oriental Orthodox Churches. Again, except for the Maronites, there were no Eastern Rites until mid 1500's CE, when Poland conquered the Western part of the Ukrainian Rus.

The Orthodox Bishops agreed to accept union with Rome as long as they could maintain their Eastern Traditions such as Liturgy, Pascalion, calendar of Saints, etc. This included a married diaconate and priesthood. The Document called the Union of Brest http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15130a.htm
I have never read a more disgusting and erroneous statement as this in the "Catholic" Encyclodedia.

Of course not one thing was made mention that the Liturgy no longer mached the Theology, since the Uniats came under Rome they had to accept such things as original sin, papal supremacy, and later, papal infallibility and the Immaculate Conception. These 4 doctrines are unique to the western church and cannot be found in the dogma/doctrin of the Eastern Orthodox Church

Except for the Maronites, the uniat Churches are a sham. They never allowed married clergy anywhere in the west, even thought there are a few million Uniats in the USA alone. Eastern Poland cannot have married Priests, for fear that the Roman rite priests will rebel. In this country Ukrainian Catholics were Latinized to that they had "low" liturgies, many Churches were built w/o an Iconostansion. The Maronites were so laitinized that my polish grandmother took them to be pre-novice ordo Churches. There was one in her neighborhood that she attended regularly rather than go to her old Church and listen to Guitar masses.

As to the Assyrians... they are remnant of the Nestoriani (those who follwed Nestorius when he was condemned at Nicea II, I think) and are not a part of the Roman Catholic Church. The Assyrians are generally known as The Church of the East.
The Chaldean Catholics are their (fake) Jesuit counterpart.

There is an interesting story told about villages in Eastern poland, where a few Priest would appear in a Village without an Orthodox Church. They would build a Russo-byzantine building, hold the Litrugy of John Chrysostom in old Slavonic, and when the peasants brought their children to be Baptized, they never told them that they weren't Orthodox Clergy, but minions of Rome... and that they were being Baptized into the Church of Rome....knowing the Jesuits, it doesn't sound far fetched.

Re: Thanks!

[goreism.livejournal.com]

In short, there are several Christians in Kerala who trace their origin to St. Thomas -- they're called "St. Thomas Christians" or "Syrian Christians". Their jurisdictional status got shot to hell after the arrival of the Europeans, with two sui iuris Eastern Catholic churches (the Syro-Malabars, who follow the East Syrian or Chaldean rite with a lot of Latin influence and the Syro-Malankars, who date from 1920 or so, and who follow the West Syrian or Assyrian rite). There are also assorted Oriental Orthodox (they prefer "miaphysite" over "monophysite", which they associate with Eutychian monophysitism), Nestorians and even one in communion with the Anglicans: the Mar Thoma church.

Generally, the Syrian Christians are well-respected, unlike Catholics in Bengal who are largely seen as low-caste converts.

The Maronites have no Orthodox counterpart, though that's mainly because they were isolated fromt he rest of Christendom during the proper time. Some would argue that the Italo-Albanians or Syro-Malabars were never really "out of communion with Rome."