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Standing on the platform with a copy of Return of the king in hand, I felt like such a posseur. I don't suppose it would've helped matters to explain to passersby that I was only re-reading the appendices.

Seeing the other LOTR movies did not motivate me to go back to the source literature--rather the opposite, since I want the depictions in the films to fade more before I reread what Tolkien originally penned. That's the only way I have a chance of reviving a bit of what I visualised when I read them for the first time twenty years ago this year. I'm not sure what's different this time. Perhaps the knowledge that this is the last installment. (At least for several years--after all, with Jackson's blockbuster success, can an adaption of The Silmarillion be far behind? Perhaps the general public will never be ready for that, but I'd be amazed if a new version of The Hobbit weren't already being storyboarded.) Any more answers to the puzzles on screen will have to be sought in interviews with the cast and crew or the original novels.

Top of the list is, What's the deal with Denegoth? As [livejournal.com profile] monshu asks, "Is he just mad with grief or what?" In the appendix, Tolkien calls him "more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore." Is Jackson's depiction more character assassination à la what was supposedly done to Faramir in Two Towers? There do seem to be some mitigating circumstances: Like poor Faramir, Denegoth is neglected by his father in favour of another--who isn't even his other son, but some complete stranger who pops up to lead fantastically successful expeditions. This turns out to be none other than Aragorn, so it should be no surprise that Denegoth ends up resenting him and his right-hand man Gandalf. But did he really neglect preparations for war or are he and Gandalf just having a difference of opinion? After all, his premature aging is the result of a lot of palantir-gazing, so he's probably at least as well informed on the situation as the Grey Pilgrim.

Of all the novels, the third is probably the one that I remember least clearly. This was good when watching the film, since it meant many surprises, but it doesn't help when trying to comprehend Tolkien's œuvre. Now I'm reading parts that I know I never read before--I skipped right over the king lists to get to the linguistic notes--and have answered at least one nagging question: Why, if Aragorn is the heir, is there a steward in Gondor in the first place? Turns out that Isildur's sons divided the West into two realms; the Southern Line died out and was replaced by stewards, but Aragorn is the last scion of the Northern Line and claims the entire West as his inheritance. It's rather as if someone from the direct line of Charlemagne who'd been mucking about in Eastern Europe for 3,000 years showed up in Paris demanding the crown. No wonder Denegoth isn't happy to see him.
Date: 2004-01-02 08:11 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] rollick.livejournal.com
Cass touches on what's wrong with Denethor here, while bitching about stuff that shouldn't have been left out of the movie. You actually just mentioned the reason here…
Date: 2004-01-02 08:47 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] go-wade-in.livejournal.com
i got the impression that Aragorn didn't want to be king and was content to be a "ranger".

as regards to the Silmarillion, there was an article in some entertainment rag recently where the writer was ruminating on the wont of movie studios to go for a sure thing (which in this case meant the dreaded word: sequel). i've heard somewhere that Peter Jackson has already expressed interest in doing The Hobbit. i can imagine the Silmarillion itself can be plundered for lots of other direct-to-DVD sequels.
Date: 2004-01-02 09:08 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com
i got the impression that Aragorn didn't want to be king and was content to be a "ranger".

Interesting. I'll be curious to see what I think after I reread the books. There's no real implication in the movie that he accepted the crown only reluctantly. You could read his delay in assuming it (believe it or not, he was 88 when he was crowned, according to the chronology in Return of the king) either as unwillingness or as scheming patience. (He ends up living another 119 years after assuming the crown.)
Date: 2004-01-02 11:09 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] lhn.livejournal.com
There's no real implication in the movie that he accepted the crown only reluctantly.

Actually, that idea shows up only in the movie. Jackson's Aragorn is concerned that he will repeat Isildur's failure, and therefore doesn't want the crown. (One could point out that Isildur's "failure" nonetheless resulted in securing the foundation of a state that lasted millennia and driving away the Dark Lord for a comparable term. But then, Aragorn grew up in Rivendell, and movie-Elrond's attitude re human achievement probably rubbed off some.) Aragorn's reluctance shows up most prominently in one of his scenes with Arwen in "Fellowship" (and, IIRC, is also alluded to by Elrond when he and Gandalf talk), and is finally overcome when he accepts Anduril from Elrond in the latest movie.

[Tolkien geek powers: activate!]

In the book, the situation is somewhat different. When the third-to-last king of Gondor died, the king of Arthedain (the last of the three successor states to Arnor) tried to claim the crown of Gondor as the most direct heir. The royal council ruled that the throne of Gondor belonged only to the heirs of Isildur's brother Anarion, and selected a collateral descendant. That only lasted two generations when a king died without heir, and no acceptable candidate could be found afterwards. So the Stewards began ruling in the name of the king, though no one really expected that "till the king shall come again" was much more than formula. But the exclusion of the line of Isildur remained. (Aragorn is actually descended from Anarion in the female line, but that claim was addressed and rejected by the aforementioned council.)

(There's a bit of a slam at places like Scotland or the Frankish empire, where palace stewards assumed royal rank as well as powers. Young Boromir is supposed to have asked when a steward could become a king, and Denethor answered "Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty.... In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice." That for you, Stuarts and Carolingians! Though a cynic might wonder if that conviction would have survived had Boromir succeeded his father in a less perilous time.)

In any case, it was clear by Aragorn's time that it would take more than bloodlines to make him king. In the event, what it took was showing up in the nick of time to save the capital, the convenient removal of the two people who stood in his way (with the remaining Steward heir, Faramir, not having any ambitions to rule), his successful stepping into the vacuum to command, and the unlooked-for victory in the War. That won him the support of the major nobles of the realm (notably Imrahil, the prince of Dol Amroth, whose stature was such that he probably could have wound up in charge under other circumstances) and the acclamation of the people of Minas Tirith (asked and enthusiastically given when Aragorn first officially enters the city). In "other places of less royalty", Aragorn's descent would have been nearly irrelevant, or possibly faked as necessary, as his military and political successes would have been sufficient to gain him the crown on its own. (Of course, in such places, the fact that he was the only person present when Boromir died and that Denethor's final despair was provoked by the black fleet Aragorn had commandeered would raise some darker suspicions.)

believe it or not, he was 88 when he was crowned, according to the chronology in Return of the king

Jackson actually included that bit in the extended edition of "The Two Towers", where Aragorn tells Eowyn his age. Some interesting comparisons: Aragorn is about the same age as Denethor (though as a full-blooded royal, Aragorn carries it better). Both are a couple of decades older than Theoden (who is about 70, though he looks younger in the movie). And, of course, from Arwen's perspective the difference between Aragorn's age and Eowyn's is barely measurable, since she's pushing 2800 herself-- she was around for most of the history of Gondor and Arnor. (I've said before that the halfelven seem to get the best deal, living more or less as long as they choose but still being able to take the Gift of Men if it seems like a good idea. Though Arwen had some regrets about her choice when it actually came to it.)

Date: 2004-01-02 11:43 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com
By "the movie", I meant RotK. Aragorn seems quite pleased to be crowned King of Arnor and Gondor--even if he does pause to give mad props to the Periannath.

Anything that transpired between Arwen and Aragorn, I've already forgotten--especially if I last saw it two years ago. I'm at least relieved to see that some of it is interpolated from the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn rather than made up out of whole cloth.
Date: 2004-01-02 11:52 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] prilicla.livejournal.com
In the (unnecessary, in my opinion, but that's another story) meeting between Aragorn and Elrond in ROTK, didn't Elrond tell Aragorn something like, "Give up the ranger, and be what you were meant to be!"

But I agree that Aragorn seemed pretty happy to be crowned by the time of the actual coronation.
Date: 2004-01-02 11:58 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] lhn.livejournal.com
By "the movie", I meant RotK. Aragorn seems quite pleased to be crowned King of Arnor and Gondor

Or at least Gondor-- I don't remember their mentioning Arnor in the movies.

--even if he does pause to give mad props to the Periannath.

Because he's made his decision by then. The key moment in his personal struggle in the movie is his conversation with Elrond. At Arwen's insistence, Elrond has brought him the sword of the king (which the movie Aragorn quite deliberately left behind when the fellowship set out) and Aragorn doesn't want to take it. Elrond tells him that the only hope is to command the Dead as the King and Aragorn is still reluctant. Only when Elrond tells Aragorn that Arwen is dying, and that her only hope lies in their victory (something that's never really explained, but whatever) and more or less demands that Aragorn do what he was born to do does Aragorn take the sword and embrace his destiny.

He then demonstrates this in his confrontation with the king of the Dead. Further reluctance after that is pointless: he's asserted himself as the king, as signified by the fact that he flies the royal banner on his flagship. (Made for him in the book by Arwen-- I don't know if that detail will show up in the extended version of the movie.) The confrontation with the Mouth of Sauron at the Black Gate, which I understand will be in the extended edition, will probably also have him identify himself as the king of Gondor, and he's certainly acting in that role with his St. Crispin's Day speech. Presumably Jackson wanted Aragorn to be conflicted, not wishy-washy, so once he's made his decision it stays made. Besides, he didn't fail as he feared he would-- the Ring was destroyed and Gondor saved, due in large part to his actions. (And even if he still had inner doubts, his public coronation wouldn't be the time to display them.)
Date: 2004-01-02 10:54 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] lil-m-moses.livejournal.com
I believe The Hobbit is already in the works for a 2005 release. Or maybe that was 2007 - I forget. I'm sure there's a news bit somewhere on http://www.theonering.net , but it's not presenting itself easily.
Date: 2004-01-02 11:19 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] lhn.livejournal.com
It's rather as if someone from the direct line of Charlemagne who'd been mucking about in Eastern Europe for 3,000 years showed up in Paris demanding the crown. No wonder Denegoth isn't happy to see him.

In some ways it's even worse: at a tense moment when the Cold War seems to be turning hot, the heir of Charlemagne shows up to claim command of NATO, backed by Merlin. Merlin, meanwhile, has decided (without consulting NATO or any of the national leaders of the countries involved) the best way to use the secret war-winning Soviet weapon that's made its way to the West: give it to an untrained civilian who knows no Russian, and have him carry it into the center of Kaliningrad. Boromir often gets a bum rap, but his perspective on the situation is probably the most modern (and, on the surface, reasonable) of any of the characters. To Denethor, Aragorn isn't just a potential usurper (with nothing to recommend him except the letter of a law long reduced to little more than a technicality), he's complicit in throwing away Gondor's very last chance.

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