WotD: shame on another's behalf

[muckefuck]

1. die Fremdscham
2. de plaatsvervangende schaamte
3. la vergüenza ajena
4. la vergonya aliena
5. l'honte d'autrui

Notes: The German word in particular often features in lists of "untranslatable words" (probably by dint of being a single [orthographic] word rather than a more obvious composition), but Spanish-speakers reportedly like to claim that vergüenza ajena is such a uniquely Spanish concept that English-speaking psychologists have adopted the term of art "Spanish shame" for it, although there appears to be no evidence for this. Some years back, a cabal of word mavens invented the term igry which they defined as "painfully embarrassed for or uncomfortable about someone else's incredibly poor social behavior, or descriptive of such poor social behavior" and which others suggested using in a broader sense of "embarrassed for another", but it's a coinage I've yet to spot in the wild.

Comments

[lil-m-moses.livejournal.com]

It's too bad we don't have a good English equivalent, as there's an entire huge genre of comedy that I feel it about (Seinfeld, Meet the Parents, etc.) and therefore can't watch.

[come-to-think.livejournal.com]

Certainly, we have the *concept* (perhaps all cultures do?). We have the idiom "I'm ashamed of you", but, AFAIK, no corresponding noun.

[anicca-anicca2.livejournal.com]

I've never actually heard "Fremdscham" but as a verb, "fremdschämen", it's been about for .. 5 to 10 years or so? I don't think I remember it being used before that.
The interesting thing is that "schämen" seems to be gone, I haven't heard "ich hab mich geschämt" or "du solltest dich schämen" in ages. The concept seems to ge gone, nobody's ashamed of themselves anymore, for having violated rules or moral concepts, and to tell another adult or even child off in such a fashion is probably considered too (openly) humiliating for the accused. But cringeing in the presence of somebody behaving badly apparently isn't considered being smug, just superior. Actually, come to think of it "cringeing" might actually be quite a good translation for fremdschämen.

[pne.livejournal.com]

I’ve never heard of that noun before, though I have seen fremdschämen on a list of Word of the Year or something like that. (Never seen it actually used, though, as opposed to referred to, though I suppose it must see some use to have ended up on that list.)

[pne.livejournal.com]

Ugh, is that what it refers to? I hate films with that kind of uncomfortable social situations, too.

Though I’d put that in terms of “embarrassment” rather than “shame”.

[(Anonymous)]

"embarrassment squick"--wouldn't easily get that into another language, I imagine.

Kai in NYC