muckefuck: (Default)
muckefuck ([personal profile] muckefuck) wrote2010-03-07 09:50 pm
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To have and to hold

There are two kinds of languages in this world: Those with a lexical verb for "have" and those which make do without. Irish is (famously?) one of those which make do without. What I find interesting is how it exploits its alternative, prepositional means to express distinctions which are not obligatory in English.

When speaking Irish, something that is in your possession is described as being "at" you. We have a similar expression in English ("Do you have a pencil on you?") except that this is limited to portable items. Not so in Irish: An bhfuil tigh[*] agat "Do you have a house?" (Lit. "Is house at-you?") But you can have something without owning it, a distinction Irish expresses by using the preposition le "with" instead of ag. So if I say Tá tigh againn, that leaves open the question of whether we also own it, rent it, or have come into possession of it through some other means. Conversely, Tá tigh linn leaves open the question of whether we live there or elsewhere.

As I may have explained before, emotions and ailments are in a class of their own. You don't "have" a cold in Irish; rather, a cold is "on" you. In German, the usual idiom for "I'm hungry" is not "Ich bin hungrig" but "Ich habe Hunger"; in Irish, it is Tá ocras orm. This causes consternation for learners, for whom Táim ocrach would be more natural, though native speakers could interpret this as "I am stricken with hunger" instead of "I could eat."

It is only through a conflation of these two forms, one native and one an English calque, that I can explain the sentence I saw today: Tá tuirseach orum[**]. Tuirseach isn't "tiredness" (that would be tuirse), it's "tired". As a noun, however, it means "a tired person". I could see how having a tired person on top of you could make you one yourself, but somehow I don't think this is what the speaker in question meant to say!


[*] Standard Irish teach. The Munster nominative/accusative form tigh is historically dative.
[**] Sic. As anyone familiar with the Hiberno-English accent knows, it's quite regular to add the extra syllable here. (I once knew a charming young man from the North who was always going to see "fillums".) Some Munster varieties even switch the stress, saying /o'rum/ by analogy with /a'gum/ (agam).

[identity profile] jaquez.livejournal.com 2010-03-08 11:44 am (UTC)(link)
When speaking Irish, something that is in your possession is described as being "at" you.

Interesting! I suppose this is the same idea as the French, c'est à toi?, "is it yours?" - ?

(I once knew a charming young man from the North who was always going to see "fillums".)

Haha, very common in Scotland as well, of course. Just as, "girls/girruls", world/wurrild" etc.

[identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com 2010-03-08 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Someone tried to teach me once the different ways of expressing possession in Standard French, but I never learned the distinctions properly.