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muckefuck ([personal profile] muckefuck) wrote2007-12-05 09:29 pm
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Tír na n-iontas

Do bhí an sneachta draíochtach aréir. Do theastaigh uaim do dhul ag spaisteoireacht sa pháirc, ach bhí sé déanach, do bhíos tuirseach, agus do bhí uaim, leis, beagáinín Gaoluinne a léamh.

[identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 03:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Ní thuigfead choíche na riala litrithe seo! I thought "Gaeilge" was standard and "Gaoluinn/Gaelainn" dialect; my book writes Gaeilge but glosses it [ge:liŋ']. *osna*

Mo bhuíochas (nó mo "bhaochas"?) leat arís.

[identity profile] fainic-thu-fein.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
There aren't rules, per se, about when you're allowed to write the word as it's actually pronounced in the dialect and when you're not. Gaeilge is certainly the standard spelling and it's possible that Gaelainn/Gaoluinn is considered an acceptable alternate spelling in the Official Standard, but I'm not sure. When writing specifically in Munster dialect for a Munster audience, however, Gaelainn/Gaoluinn is perfectly acceptable.

Honestly, the only way to know this stuff is to spend years reading everything you can get your hands on.

Mo bhuíochas (nó mo "bhaochas"?)

Unlike "Gaelainn", bhuíochas, even though pronounced "bhaochas", is the only spelling I've ever seen, no matter the dialect.

I think you run the risk of driving yourself mad if you try to write in dialect right from the start. Obviously it's up to you how you go about this, but I would strongly recommend keeping your written Irish standard. That doesn't stop you from pronouncing it in a Munster fashion, of course.

[identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
The trouble is, the books I have only teach dialect, not the standard! Both Dillon/Ó Cróinín and Ó Siadhail admit to striking a compromise between CO and dialect spellings, but whereas the latter has an appendix explaining the chief deviations, the former only give a couple of examples ("Gaeilge" for "Gaoluinn" being one, in fact). So my only way of knowing whether something is "official" or not really is trying to look it up in my Gearrfhoclóir (An Gúm, 1981), which doesn't seem to include any dialect spellings. From this I gather that, for instance, Dillon/Ó Cróinín's feirmeoir is CO and Ó Siadhail's feilméara is some kind of glue-sniffing Galway word that would presumably be acceptable only to other speakers of the same dialect.

[identity profile] fainic-thu-fein.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
You're right about feirmeoir = CO; feilméara = Cois Fhairrge.

I know everyone criticises TY Irish, but it's not entirely without merit. It was a decent introduction and presented the CO. I'd say if you work through that book you'll be well able to identify renegade dialect spellings afterwards.

'Turas Teanga' is also quite good for the CO (I'm buying that one for my Mom for Christmas since she's just starting to learn Irish herself). It's a fair bit more expensive than TY Irish though.

[identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it's a complete modern multimedia course whereas TY Irish is just a flimsy little paperback. Picking it up again, I understand why I never made much progress before: Not only is the method all grammar-translation, but it's totally like "Okay, first memorise these two dozen verb forms. Then maybe we'll get around to forming some sentences." Somewhere in my papers is summary of verb conjugations I wrote out longhand to save me having to page back and forth all the time.

Now I've got a lot more support: a dictionary, Learning Irish, a novella by Breandán Ó hÉithir, not to mention all the resources on the web and--most important of all--an indulgent fluent speaker! It also helps that I've learned a couple more languages in the meantime and I have an idea what will work for me and what won't. I tend not to use recordings of any sort, which is why I avoid sinking my money into them.

[identity profile] fainic-thu-fein.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I tend not to use recordings of any sort

I hope you listen to Raidió na Gaeltachta at least! 'An Saol Ó Dheas' (http://www.rte.ie/rnag/ansaolodheas.html) is a great programme for Munster Irish. Occasionally there are non-Munster guests on the show (such as yours truly) but mostly it's Munster Irish you'll hear.

[identity profile] muckefuck.livejournal.com 2007-12-06 09:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Ó inniu amach!