Veterus Ordo

[muckefuck]

I really wish more media outlets would learn to distinguish "Latin mass" from "Tridentine mass". The novelty of Benny 16's Summorum Pontificum is not that it allows the mass to be said in Latin; this has been possible all along. It's that it allows the Latin mass that our grandparents grew up with to be said without special permission. You see, Vatican II didn't just change the language of the mass, it changed the whole text of the liturgy: What prayers were included, the congregation's responses, and on and on. Older Catholics could always request the performance of Novus Ordo Latin masses, but they weren't the same as the masses they grew up with. Furthermore, even before these changes were made, the Tridentine mass was being performed in languages other than English. Nevertheless, a priest still needed special permission to perform a Tridentine mass regardless whether it was in English, Latin, Kikongo, or whatever.

Incidentally, it's up to the bishop of each diocese to decide whether to grant permission for performance of the Tridentine mass, so actual practice varies a lot in the USA and worldwide. In Chicago, Tridentine masses have been available for almost 20 years now at the parish of St. John Cantius in Ukrainian Village, so the effect of the Pope's letter will probably be minor. Perhaps the media coverage will prompt a few more nostalgic parishioners to seek out this parish, but I suspect anyone with more than a passing interest knew about it already.

I overheard some kids on the el over the weekend discussing the change and calling it "a step backward". "I think what people want is for them to be more progressive." I wonder about that. If you're really interested in progressive Christianity, why would you turn to the church whose name is byword for backwardness and ossification? I'm curious what a brand analyst would say if hired to advise the RCC. I suspect he'd see more value in playing up the ties to tradition; after all, that's what makes this denomination unique in a sea of johnny-come-lately sects and congregations.

Comments

[bunj.livejournal.com]

I too have been disappointed by the coverage of this. I mean, it's not that difficult a concept, but so many media outlets miss the distinction between Latin mass and Tridentine mass (with a few so confused as to call it the Latin Rite). Also, many have used this story as an excuse to pontificate on how the Catholic Church is growing more conservative and out-of-touch, yadda yadda yadda.

I think Benny 16 is quite aware of the "Catholic brand" which is why he's taking the steps he's taking. As mollpeartree and others have said, "Mass isn't supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be important." This is one of his steps to make mass important again, and to play to Catholicism's strengths. If the Church was as progressive as those kids on the El would like, would they attend mass?

[fengshui.livejournal.com]

Also, in the protestant cauldron, the denominations that are thriving are the more strict conservative ones. Episcopalianism is hurting, largely because of its progressive nature.

[tyrannio.livejournal.com]

Every time I see "Tridentine Mass", I think at first it's some sort of trishul-featuring Shaivite ceremony.

[foodpoisoningsf.livejournal.com]

1. Progressive does not mean fun. It means including women and gays, and making the liturgy not only accessible but comprehensible. Do you lead a Catholic life on a daily basis, or is a weekly fantasia of your best clothes, Latin and incense? Overhearing kids on the El is not surprising, but it's interesting. They probably actually know the liturgy without having to read stained-glass windows.

2. The mega-churches are not Catholic. They are (generally) Pencostal/Evangelical offshoots of 19th C American Protestantism rooted in the Old Testament with very different ideas about salvation, transubstantiation and the divinity of Mary. For all their supposed rigor, it's still the lite beer of Christianity, but it's possible that Benny16 is looking for the same appeal of Olde Tyme Religion with the Tridentine Mass.

3. I thought Benny16's freeing of the Tridentine Mass interesting in the sense that it's a recognition of the varied personalities within his church- that's it's not a monolithic enterprise- but one with varying traditions. Makes for a bigger tent.

4. Does the TM still condemn the Jews as Christ Killers?