muckefuck | Six Odd Things #2: Besteck

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Six Odd Things #2: Besteck

#2: I employ silverware like a reverse European

I wouldn't've known this about myself if e. hadn't pointed it out one day during a family meal. For those of you wondering what I'm talking about: Europeans tend to keep knife in one hand and fork in another. They don't switch hands, as most Americans do; they cut as they go and they don't rest their cutting hand in their lap when not in use. I'm left-handed, though, so whereas most Europeans would have the knife in the right hand, I hold mine in my left.

What I find oddest about this is that I have no idea how and why I picked it up. It's true, I did live in Europe for a while, but I almost never dined out in anything resembling a formal setting. There are European customs I adopted deliberately during my stay, like writing the date day-month-year or starting with the thumb when counting on my fingers, both of which I do to this day. But this wasn't one of them.

Both my younger siblings have also spent a considerable chunk of time in Europe and/or dining with Europeans, but my sister (who was once engaged ot a Spaniard) still eats like an American. My left-handed brother (who actually married a Spaniard) also uses knife and fork like a European, but a right-handed one. Now that's just plain weird.

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Hey, me too, both in eating that way and in having no real reason for it.

I tend to switch back and forth between European and American styles, depending on the food I'm eating. The European style just makes more sense for some kinds of food. But I can tell you exactly where I picked up the European habit: Iron Chef.

You were on Iron Chef?

I'm left-handed and I hold my knife in my right hand. It's just something you learn to do in Europe. You get used to it quickly enough; I'd find it odd to eat with my knife in my left hand and my fork in my right hand now, notwithstanding the fact that I'm left-handed.

Do Americans start with the little finger when counting on their fingers? How very odd.

No, they generally start with the pointer finger and end with the thumb. When someone showed me the German (Continental?) method of starting with the thumb and ending on the pinky, it struck me as so eminently sensible that I immediately adopted it.

The only peoples I know who start with the pinky are East and Southeast Asians. But they don't count fingers, they count joints.

I think the German way of counting on one's fingers is indeed the Continental way. I don't think I've ever seen a European do differently. And to me, it makes perfect sense.

I'd forgotten about the joint thing, but you're right. I've seen Thai count their knuckles. Very interesting.

Speaking of differing international habits, as an addendum to the linguistic discussion we had earlier today, I've always found it fascinating that the Chinese point to their nose when referring to themselves, whereas most Westerners will point to their heart.

A couple times, I've read some elabourate explanation of how this constitutes proof of Chinese modesty and collectivism vs. Western narcissistic individualism; all I can do is roll my eyes.

However, it is interesting to note that the characters for "nose" (鼻) and "self" (自) share an etymology. That is, the latter is, in origin, a pictograph of a nose. When it came to be widely used in the meaning of "self", a new character for "nose" was created by the addition of the phonetic (畀) to the original character. This suggests that the association may go quite far back in Chinese history.

What I'm not sure about, however, is what etymological connexion--if any--there is between the two words involved. I'll have to see what Karlgren has to say.

The things you learn on LJ... It would never have occurred to me that different cultures used different methods of counting on their fingers. Nor, for that matter, could I have said how I did it without actually doing it.

Unless the experiment has been spoiled by some Heisenberg-like principle*, though, I do count starting with my pinky. In fact, I find it very awkward to do otherwise. Usually to start at one end and wrap around to count more than five items, using one hand (why would you need fingers to count fewer than five?).

*After writing the above, I realized that maybe I didn't know what the Heisenberg principle was. Turns out I didn't. I meant the observer effect, though it really should have a cooler name. At least it's s common error. The things you learn on Wikipedia...

My mother always tells the story about how American spies used to get caught by this during WWII (at least in Italy), so I've always noticed which way people use their fork and knife.

-e

You tireless and patriotic efforts to root out foreign spies in the midst of our dinner parties will not go unrecognised or unrewarded!

Isaac Asimov once wrote a short story in which a German spy was being interrogated by Americans. He was able to "prove" he was American by reciting all the verses to the Star Spangled Banner letter-perfect. This of course showed him up to be an impostor, since most Americans don't know all the verses.

I tried to figure out which I do, and came to the conclusion that I don't use knife and fork. Why can't you cut up your food in the kitchen or eat with your hands like civilized people?

I eat like a left-handed European, despite being right-handed - my mum is left-handed so I think she always laid the table that way, though she swears not. I had to think about the counting though. If I'm just using one hand for counting (ie, stick out digit a for 'one', digit b for 'two') then I start with the thumb; if I'm pointing to the digits with the other hand, I'll start on the thumb for large numbers but on the index finger for numbers less than five.
Well, if you willl bring these things up...

Part of the reason for doing this series is to demonstrate that I'm not half as weird-ass as the people on my Friends list.

I remember being a wee tiny thing when my mother pointed out that one of the bonuses of left-handedness is not having to pass one's silverware around. Fork in left, knife in right. That's the way they're laid on the table, and who am I to mess with convention?

I can eat with a fork in my left hand and a knife in my right hand (even if I'm not currently using the knife). I can also eat with a fork in my right hand.

I have a really hard time eating with a fork in my left hand if my right hand is empty. Which I find a little strange.

(I'm right-handed.)

From the computer perspective:

I spend endless time trying to convince developers that if they are going to put a date into a filename to differentiate versions, please god just tack it on the end, and use yyyymmdd format. With leading zeroes. 'Cause then it sorts!

I myself picked up writing my dates in the weird "dd Mon yyyy" format from Oracle. In the default state for Oracle (once upon a time), if you typed your dates in like '06 Jun 2006', you didn't have to use a string-to-date function to get it to be recognized. I promised myself at the turn of the century that I'd use four digit dates fanatically, and when I change my habit on writing my checks each month, I found myself writing it in the Oracle default format.

I'm right handed, but I employ my silverware the same way you do.

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